On rare occasion in the afternoon, I get to watch Oprah. Now I am not a huge Oprah fan but I do like to watch it once and a while for its, well entertainment value and sometimes, it makes me think.
The other day, she did a show about what to do in some of life's sticky situations. She had a couple of 'experts' on, now how you get to be an 'expert' in handling life sticky situations, I don't know but nonetheless, they were 'experts.' The premise of the show was that people in the audience could ask questions and get some advice. She had one viewer that called in to ask about a situation with her son.
I am going to sum it up but you can read the whole story here: Oprah So basically this woman's 12 year old son likes and girl and she liked him.
They were about to share their first kiss together (which I have issues with in itself but that is not the major issue) when they were interrupted. So they parted ways. The next day the boy got text messages from this girl about how she is in love with him and she really wants to see him. She wants to go to second base with him and she even wants to have oral sex with him. These texts go on and on. The news of this got all over school and the boy was really embarrassed. The sticky situation was that the boy's mother did not know what to do. She didn't know if she should talk to the girl's mother or not.
So there are a lot of issues in this story that just shock and appall me, what about you? First, I think that they mother of the girl has to be contacted. She should know what is going on. I don't think that it should be done in accusing way but more like just for your information. I know that if this was my 12 year old daughter's action, then I would surely want to know and you can bet your ass we would be having a conversation.
Second, I just want to say, REALLY!?! For those of you have older children than I, is this truly what they have to face out there? I mean when I was 12, I barely was able to look at boys let alone want to kiss one and I had no idea what second base or oral sex was. I was still playing with Barbies. Now I know the issue of our kids growing up to fast has been beat to death. So I guess I just have to face it that my kids will be faced with mature issue before they/I am ready but can I protect them from this or better yet how can I help them deal with this? Can I keep them from having to be faced with a boy/girl that wants to engage in sexual acts at the age of 12. If so how?
Lastly, well I really don't have a third point. Just let me know your thoughts and what you would do in this situation because I really just want to hide under the covers, keep my kids locked in the house and never face the world again. But I don't think that that is wise option for anyone, especially the kids.
Deux par Deux Has The Cutest Kid Clothes
4 days ago
35 comments:
When I was teaching middle school (6th grade, not 8th grade) oh so many years ago (like 8), we had to deal with the "if it was my daughter, I'd want to know" conversation many times. Most of the time it was girls bugging boys and we had to put it in the perspective of, if they were adults what they were doing would be considered sexual harrassment.
First off, I just want to know if I'm the only person here, thinking, UM WHY DOES A 12-YEAR OLD NEED A CELL PHONE? REMIND ME AGAIN?? I don't care what anyone says about safety - cell phones are causing more trouble than any support they are worth. Case in point here for proof. And safety? Where is a 12-year-old going to be that they couldn't just ask an adult for help?
But, beyond that, YES I think you will face this. Unfortunately, sex, drugs, and deviant behavior is coming earlier and earlier. I think the bright side is that kids whose parents are REALLY involved in their lives, and have a strong family unit, are more likely to just start the deviant behavior at the normal age, like 16 or so! :-)
My mom teaches 7th grade biology, and yes, unfortunately, this type of thing occurs in middle school. *shudders* I hate it.
I hope my daughter will make wise decisions when she is faced with such things, but it scares the crap out of me.
Can I just say, holy crap!
Having three older sisters, I knew a lot of stuff before I probably should've. But knowing about something and actually doing it, two different things. Part of the problem nowadays is that kids are on their own, with no one having the time or caring enough to keep tabs on what they are doing. I think the key is staying hyperaware of what your kids are doing, who they are hanging out with, and keeping an open line of communication with them at all times. I'm taking pointers from my sister, Michelle; her daughter is 17, and such a good kid, and she talks to Michelle about everything. Without fear of judgement.
You need to stop watching Oprah. Don't we have enough to worry about on a daily basis already? One day at a time, that's all I'm sayin'.
Oh Lord...Can I hop under those covers too? I am not enjoying the idea of my sons learning these things that early! My stepson just admitted this summer that he likes girls. He's ten. I think I liked it better when he thought they were yucky.
oh man - I don't like this at all! 12, that is sort of sick actually. How does a 12 year old girl know anything about oral sex? We shelter our children FROM almost everything. Is this wrong - I don't know - but that is what we do. There are words that are not even spoken in my house b/c I don't want my children hearing them. My son heard at school not to vote for Barack Obama b/c he kills babies in mommies tummies. I WAS HORRIFIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Believe me - we had a chat with the principal the next day!!!!!!!! (he attends a christian school)
I'm with you - I was playing with barbies and riding my horse and swimming in the lake at age 12, boys were super gross!!
This will not happen in my house - and that mom should SO know about what her daughter is texting!!
Oh, and my kids will not have cell phones!!!!!!!!!!
I think that kids know sooo much more than we think they do. My dad used to be a librarian at an elementary school...and they found 5th graders having oral sex in the bathrooms there.
And here. For school schedules, the high schoolers get out first. High schoolers are home by 2:30 in the afternoon. What do you think they are doing with their free, unsupervised time?
And for the reality of it...open communication is all I can think of. To provide an environment for your kids where they feel comfortable coming to you with anything. And everything.
It's a whole new world...
I'm sure it's completely shocking when this kind of things happens to us directly. I can't imagine how I'll feel when my daughter gets into this kind of scene.
What I do know from working in sexual health years ago is that the communication needs to remain open and honest between us and our children. We shouldn't be afraid to have the discussions with them and the more they know and understand, the less likely they are to actually engage in these kinds of behaviors.
It's also about self-esteem. Girls especially feel so pressured to "perform" or be sexually engaged with boys. We need to make sure our daughters are smart and self-confident (and knowledgeable) so they don't fall into the traps of peer pressure.
I know, it's all so much easier said than done. But, if we approach it directly rather than hide our heads and hope it doesn't touch them, we're fooling ourselves.
It's a different world out there now, for sure!!
I think every mom of young kids is shaking in their boots at your post--the prospect of our BABIES being exposed to or, even worse, instigating such talk and behavior breaks our hearts! But, as the fine ladies above me have stated: the world is what it is, and we have to be wise in how we live in it and how we teach our children to deal with what they will encounter. I think of it as if I'm preparing my kids for battle. The second they step out of my house, I want them housed in "protective armor". It's our job as parents to give them the knowledge and conviction they need to be strong enough to CHOOSE to distance themselves from crap like that. Because they WILL come into contact with it. (My kids both came home from school with the same Obama statements as T&T's little boy. Yikes!!)
I specifically remember hearing about oral sex when I was in middle school. From a friend, of course.
I think that we can't shelter our kids. They're going to learn one way or the other. I'm not saying that you should sit down with a kid when they are 5yo and spell out everything (there's definitely something for age-appropriateness), but that it's the parents' responsibility to let the kid learn about such things in an appropriate manner.
A couple of months ago I mentioned how one of my Awana girls (they are 5th and 6th grade) brought up someone getting pregnant at her middle school. Instead of shooting her down, I let the girls talk about it. We weren't talking specifically about sex and certainly nothing graphic, but I wanted them to know that these are taboos subjects at church. If they are curious about such things, I don't want them to go to a friend, I want them to go to a parent, or if not a parent, a trusted adult in the church.
I so agree on the 12 year olds not needing a cell phone thing. My oldest is still only 4 but I have already vowed that my kids will not have cell phones until they are old enough to have a job and pay for their own. Or, maybe I'll concede and let them have one of those Disney phones that only calls 2 numbers. Ha, they'd love that, wouldn't they!
And I think I'll just keep my kids at home forever. Home school is looking better and better all the time.
Okay, I can't keep them at home forever, I know that. Our approach is to teach them correct principles before they learn crazy things at school. My kids (2 and 4) already know the correct words for parts of their bodies, and we've already talked to them about who should and shouldn't see them/touch them.
And will probably teach them about sex at age 7 or 8. I think lots of kids explore sex because it's a taboo subject at home. Their parents are embarrassed to talk about it, or just don't talk about it. Which of course makes them more curious. I want them to learn about it early and from me, before they learn about it from friends at school.
When I was 11, girls and boys were making out behind the bleachers. When I was 12, they were moving on to 2nd base and further. By Freshman year, most girls were no longer virgins. Or at least, that was the way it was in the "popular" group at my school.
I think it depends on knowing who your daughter's friends are, having an "open house" policy so your daughter is bringing her friends home rather than hanging out at Jen-with-the-parents-that-don't-care's house, and having a good "we can talk about anything" relationship. And even then, things are going to happen and problems will slip past you.
I have the same fears as you do, but I try to hope that I will give Elizabeth a strong sense of values so when those issues come up, she'll make the right choice.
My husband is a teacher & he tells me all sorts of things that are going on. It's disgusting. I think all you can do is talk to your kids. Keep the lines of communication open & educate them.
By the way, you've won an award. Come by my blog to claim it!
Appalled? Yes. Shocked? Only that the woman had to call an expert to find out she should talk to the girl's mother. :-P
Sadly, I watched my nieces go through this sort of thing at school. My own kids didn't face it because they've been homeschooled all their lives.
I don't think every kid in every school faces these issues. Or at least, I don't want to think they do, but it is definitely a different world than when you and I were in jr. high.
Holy Cow, I'm appalled and I had a 12 yr old daughter (now 17) and would want to know if she was doing this. Thank goodness she didn't. And I can tell you that when my son turns 12 and this were to happen, I'd be all over the girl that was doing it. Why can't kids just be kids.....Geeez
I saw this show and my jaw dropped!! I have a teenage daughter and it is true that they can face this but you can shelter them from it. You just have to have very strict rules and remain plugged in. This story was excessive.
And yes, I would have definitely called the mother.
JayT is soooo not interested in girls yet ... however, I can't say the same about the girls.
I think he'll be ok because after the 1st week of school this year, on the car ride home, he turned to me and said "The girls are acting weird this year. I mean, giggly 'n stuff. Seriously, why can't they JUST play kick ball without acting so stupid!"
JayT is soooo not interested in girls yet ... however, I can't say the same about the girls.
I think he'll be ok because after the 1st week of school this year, on the car ride home, he turned to me and said "The girls are acting weird this year. I mean, giggly 'n stuff. Seriously, why can't they JUST play kick ball without acting so stupid!"
WOW!! Cell phones, oral sex and 12 year olds! OMG Oprah's got the drama! Tell me again how a 12 year old knows what oral sex is?? And let me just say, DAMN I'm glad my kiddo is only 3 and I don't have to worry about this yet...
i hate to break the news to you, but it's that way. in 20 years of hs minstry, i'm never shocked at what young kids know. my p came home in 2nd grade telling me a boy asked a hs girl to do "something" to her later...yep. true. tell your kids young, in their terms, what the world would love to teach and entice them. teach them godly ways and support them...then, when this happens, and it will in some way...they are prepared. my dd1 broke up with a boy bc he wouldn't quit trying to lean in to kiss her (13 yo)...bc that's not part of her code that she defined for herself in her right for her purity.
Those of you with young children, I was once in your shoes so I understand your shock. Now that I have a 13 year old daughter, while these things disturb me, they don't really surprise me.
You better believe I would want to know and I would tell!
i hate to say that it's true that 12 year olds most definitely know way more than they should. of course, not every 12 year old is engaging in this kind of behavior, but some are and it really is disturbing. in that situation, i would most definitely want to know and i would most certainly tell. i want to keep my kids locked up too, but since knowledge can be power i think the best way to handle it is prevention, honesty and communication. my theory is that if she isn't hearing it from me, she is hearing it from someone else and do i trust that someone else with giving her the correct information? we'll see how it works though...i still have a 12 year old and there are a lot of years ahead of us!
Okay, here are my points:
1. Cell phones don't create problems, people create problems.
2. The point isn't "should we or should we not shelter our kids" it's "HOW do we teach our kids about this?"
3. Not all kids are the same. Not every teen or pre-teen is like this. And really, it's no better or worse than we were 50 years ago.
My neice has a cell phone, and she's 14. She knows what all that stuff is, but has been brought up properly enough to know it's not okay to participate in unless you're married. THAT'S what we need to teach our kids. Don't be afraid to talk to them casually about it, because the last thing they want is for it to be uncomfortable, and the last thing you want is for them to learn it the hard way.
Everyone says, "Oh back in my day we NEVER did that." Well, maybe for that person and their peers. We assume that everything was better and more "civil" 50, 100, or even 1000 years ago, and things are getting worse with our youth. That's just not true. I would cite examples but I don't want to take up any more room than I already have!
I saw that Oprah! Or maybe I saw the follow-up show?
Anyway, I would have called the mother and I would hope that someone would call me if the tables were turned. I would certainly want to know what's going on.
I had an ugly incident recently where I saw a Youtube vieo some kid in my son's grade had made. It was this creepy rant againsnt my son--he was saying the "f" word and what not (an 11 yr. old!). So I called the kid's mom and sent her the link to the video.
She was nice and apologized and stuff and ended up bringing the kid over so he could apologize too. Turns out he was jealous b/c my kids were making these silly videos and he wanted to be in them.
My point is--I think it's always best for us to be aware of what our kids are doing!
As a grandparent and a retired high school teacher I can tell you that these kinds of things certainly go on --in school and out. However, you and Jeff work hard at making sure the kiddos--even the babies, ie Quinn's hitting) understand appropriate behavior and they know that you have high expectations. I worried when my boys were younger and you will worry as the kids get older. However, the strong foundation you and Jeff give them now will pay off in the future. Keep talking with them and they will make wise decisions--MOST of the time!
Ewwwww!!! I would SO want to know. And I would SO tell the parents!
Welcome to scary reality that I am facing. My daughter is 10 and she is already seeing that at school, dealing with it, I am appaled cause I am not ready to deal with it. But it all goes down to talking about what your family morals are. What will and won't be accepted. I used to think that we had to worry just about drugs but it is so much more now and it is so in their faces all the time. The best thing to do is build those relationships, talk to your kids, let them know what you expect and then tell them why, and keep takling about it. They already have so much pressure to grow up but this is ridiculous for them to handle sexual issues so soon. If it was me, I would be having a long talk with the girls mother and letting her know that we will not be tolerant of such behavior from their child. I think this is why I do not let my daughter have a cell phone of her own. When she goes somewhere she takes mine and that is it..... Oh that just bothers me and even the almost casual manner in which they talk about it. Is nothing of shock anymore....?
My sis-in-law and I were shopping the other day and she was telling me some CRAZY stories about how the girls act towards my nephew who just turned 14. Let me just say that he's a handsome kid, but not out of the ordinary, really. The emails, texts and IMs that she has intercepted are obscene and on more than one occasion have included photos of the girls nude. WTF!!! These are 12 or 13 year old girls taking pictures of themselves naked and sending them to a boy they aren't even dating. (Not that it would be much better if they were dating, but...)I can't even process that. My SIL has called the mothers of the girls in those cases and been met with either apathy or anger. Seriously, what is wrong with people?
Oh, man, this kind of stuff makes my insides wobble.
I'm with the Texas mama above on the "why does any 12-yr-old need a cell phone" point. I think they put opportunity right into hands that are not yet ready to handle opportunities.
Next, the parents have to be informed about this, although I would not get my hopes up as to that the response will be. A lot of parents unfortunately just can't handle being told things about their kids that they might be in denial about. That's just a generalization, I realize...
And I guess the most important part would be talking straight to the son about what the girl's behavior says about who she is...and to help him move on from the embarrassing situation while learning a lesson about being more selective about friends/girlfriends.
It kind of stinks all the way around, actually. I'm with you: inside, doors locked, phones turned off and watching reruns of "Gilligan's Island" until they're through college.
Sounds like a plan.
:^) Anna
Random comment... I've been following your blog for a while, and just joined twitter. I hope you'll add me there!
andsolifebegins on twitter
Kathy
Oh boy. I can't believe it. When I was at school we were aware it was going on (maybe not at 12 because all I cared about was horses - boys were still yucky), but I always wondered how much was real and how much was make believe. You know, to sound more sexually active than they actually were.
Now with mobiles (sorry, cell phones) and the internet any make believe can involve another person. That's got to speed things up.
Cheer up though, it is entirely possible to get to 34 years old (and be married) and still have no clue about what 2nd base actually consists of. I'm fairly certain I could guess first base and a home run but...
i think being so shocked is one of the reasons that these kind of sexual behaviors are going to keep occuring. for one, when a parent is 'disgusted' by anything you do/think about/see you aren't going to EVER bring it up to them. even if it's not YOU- if it's people you know, whatever, if you know your mom and dad are reactive to your stories, you will keep them to yourself, and this means you will PROCESS them yourself, without the helpful perspective and filter of your guiding lights- your parents.
however upsetting this is to us (and it sucks) this IS the way it IS. most everywhere. i live in a middle class suburban area with good incomes to rich incomes, and the kids at my son's middle school are doing nothing to everything and in between. ( he's 14 and i have a 12 and 6 year old )
my perspective as a parent has changed for the better as i realized that the most important thing was not to shield my children from seeing/hearing things i didn't want them to (although i do the best i can) but to constantly be in the loop, talking, communicating, and spending as much time as possible with our children.
and still.
still my son was offered drugs numerous times, and alcohol.
part of it occurs when middle schoolers get together to hang out at a friend's house and that parent is either totally uninvolved, doesn't check on the kids or pay attention, or simply not there- at work or whatever. this kind of restless freedom is NOT appropriate for kids that age, and yet conversely it is the exact age many parents feel so relieved they can 'leave the kids alone' now to go to the movies or work late. so they start leaving their kids alone, and the kids are not in the place of self impulse control, and they do things that the parents don't ever guess (not MY kid) and don't ever find out.
Hey, I'm just stopping by from SITS. I didn't see that Oprah episode, but how appalling! I didn't even know what oral sex was when I was 12.
Hi! I'm new here. Triplets? wow! Four under 4? wow again.
This post strikes a nerve with me so forgive me for preaching, especially with your babies so young.
I have a fun book recommendation for kids as young as 5 (http://goingoffthedeepend.blogspot.com/2008/09/recipe-for-talk.html). Oprah's show is a great vehicle for conversation because she's on when the kids are around. So if my boys ears pricked up, we talked about it.
As kids get older, keep communication lines open with other parents. Fabrications often unravel just by parents talking to each other. Johnny said you're having kids over tonight? Johnny said they were at your house last night. Thanks for having them. (nope. they were at the beach house throwing a party or at dad's house while he was on vacation with stepmom...)
Cell phones are bad news. Before you issue a cell phone, establish rules. They must be handed over every night. This way you can check text messages. My nieces had parties in the basement while my sister was sleeping **shudder** and they went out to parties in the middle of the night. Think high schoolers, alcohol, cars, hormones. Everyone just quietly texted each other to get together.
And who are these parents who allow mixed gender sleepovers in high school? My sons always said we were the only parents who didn't allow this. Again, hormones, alcohol, teenagers... Why would anyone want to be responsible for that??
You're a long way off, but it's really not a bad idea to discuss where you will stand on these issues ahead of time.
Good luck! Enjoy your babies!
I have an 11 yr old boy, and he would FREAK if a girl started texting that stuff to him. wow. SCARY.
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